Sat, Jun. 4th, 2005, 02:56 pm

'Cause your nose knows that's not the place it goes.

Okay, I realize that when I go to ASSM, I should not do so in search of scrupulous and sophisticated realism. I can deal with the mind-controlled supermodels, and the anthropomorphic wolf-women, and even the teenagers who shout "Fuck my pussy harder, you fucking stud!" while they're losing their virginity.

What continues to creep me out, though, are the scenes at a similar or lesser level of realism that appear to come from a sincere misunderstanding of physics and anatomy. For example, Tammy's School Days, posted to ASSTR this morning, has a scene at the beginning where a boy rapidly shoves his cock into the female protagonist's ass, despite her screams of pain, because that's a necessary step before she starts enjoying anal sex a minute later. That's so many kinds of wrong it makes me sputter, and it's not the first or even the tenth such scene I've encountered. If I thought it was just somebody's fetish, that'd be fine, but it looks like it reflects some very bad, destructive ideas about how to make ass-fucking feel good.

That's not what got me posting today, though. What I want to rant about is even weirder and more ignorant. It's cervical penetration scenes. In particular, scenes, where the man's cock penetrates the woman's cervix, triggering an overwhelming orgasm in her.

Now, most of you reading this (and possibly all the women) are thinking, "What the hell? Are there really a lot of stories with scenes like that?" Yes, there are. The link above is just the tip of the iceberg. There's a bunch more here, and creative querying will find dozens more. So you don't have to dig through the Google links, here are a few actual example sentences:

  • Juliet was in full scream in no time as I stared thrusting hard and eventually hit
    and penetrated her cervix just at the peak of her climax (and mine).
  • "Harder. Harder!", she exclaimed in her hushed sultry voice.
    He kept pushing harder until she tensed and dug her fingernails into his
    arms as he penetrated her cervix.
  • Slowly, Anna pounded the tube
    deeper until it reached 9 inches deep. It had penetrated her
    cervix and was entering her womb.
  • Connie heard the high pitched humming
    sound when her husband-Master twisted the base of the plastic prick,
    then felt the incredible pleasure as the tip of the device penetrated
    her cervix and the shaft massaged the entire length of her silky
    love tunnel.
  • She had her first orgasm as my cock
    ploughed through her cervix, deep into her womb.
  • She
    jerked and shook when the giant cockhead drove deep into her womb and
    penetrated her cervix.


Those are all from stories by different authors, from Google's first page of hits.

So what the hell is going on here? I'm really not certain, and I'm very interested in other people's insights, but I have a few guesses:

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I suspect people writing porn in the pre-sex-ed era didn't include many cervix references. It's not something that really comes up in real-life sex much. These guys seem to have learned about the cervix in high school, but forgotten (or failed to absorb) it's actual function. Much of this may not be their fault, and instead be attributable to the squeamishness of sex-ed-curricula, with its heavy emphasis on reproductive function, and avoidance of details about the actual fuckin' part of the business.
The Cult of Big Cocks
As it turns out, Freud had it backwards. Penis envy is relatively uncommon in women, but remarkably widespread in men. Are there size queens out there? You betcha, But it does seem like most of them are male. Male writers seem to want to ascribe mystical specialness to Really Big Dicks. The vagina only goes so deep--length beyond that would appear to be a liability rather than an asset. Since it's an article of faith that only a big dick can satisfy a woman, there has to be something special that only a big dick can do. Voila--cervical penetration.
The Cult of Virginity
Often, the author helpfully explains that the chick has never known the true ecstasy of having her cervix penetrated up until the scene described, and thus has never been truly sexually fulfilled. It seems like it's terribly important for the guy to give his lover something that she's never experienced before, and for that something to be very concrete and specific.Ascribing fantasy sexual properties to the cervix is a way of making her a virgin all over again for our big-dicked protagonist.


What's striking here isn't really the ignorance per se. What's interesting is the prevalence of this particular strange myth. Though it's less pernicious than the anal sex one I mentioned above, it's weird and distinctive enough that it's worth thinking about where it comes from, and what keeps it alive.

Sat, Jun. 4th, 2005 09:48 pm (UTC)
doomtart

Cervix must be the erotic part du jour...weird. Also considering that the majority of our nerve endings (pleasure centers) are located in the bottom two thirds of our vagina, knocking on the cervix is a waste of time.

Tue, Feb. 12th, 2008 06:52 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): touching the cervix during intercourse

some men have the ability to do this.
and some women cum bigtime when this happens.
the myth of penetrating the cervix, is just that,
a myth.

Sun, Oct. 23rd, 2005 12:09 pm (UTC)
crazydragon33

*nods* I've seen that a lot before becuase I hang around the Kristen Archives as much as I do fan fic sites. A lot of physics are ignored in sites related to ASSM, but its not the weirdest things I've seen so far...some people make me feel that my writing is tame which scares me...

Wed, Mar. 1st, 2006 03:25 pm (UTC)
powerfrau

The tool they use to open the cervix for a medical D&C (abortion) is thinner than a coffee stirrer and hurts like hell! May your lnowledge spread far and wide!

Tue, Jun. 26th, 2007 12:04 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): d and c

In itself d and c is not necessarily carried out for abortion though it is part of surgical procedures for that purpose. In places where abortion is illegal it has been used as a cloak for termination though it could lead to prosecution if there was adequate evidence.

The earlier the better for abortion as it can then be induced by some drugs. This is pretty traumatic but better than cutting.

Tue, Apr. 27th, 2010 09:48 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: d and c

I realize this thread is hella old and everyone'e mileage may vary, but I have had both kinds of abortions--surgical (or D&C) and medical (the abortion pill, or rather, pills).

While D&C is quite painful, it's over rather quickly. The medical kind is agonizing and disgusting and lasts for hours and hours. I can't reccommend it. I suggest people avoid it and go for a D&C if you can get it. 10 min of discomfort vs. 4+ hours of agony.

And yeah, a guy would have to literally be a "needle dick" to get his prick into a woman's cervix. And she wouldn't be moaning from the pleasure of it.

Sun, Apr. 23rd, 2006 09:27 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): cervix penetration is COOOL/IMPOSSIBLE/PAINFULL

cervix penetration is something wich 'lot guys are curious about with me its actually the pain i like about it (SMlike), but i guess u r right there are guys dont know anything of it, and might think of it as a hymen

so cp is impossible?, well giving birth expands the cervix, but the body is prepared for that, and it anyway takes a lot of time.
well is it possible to enter?, yes, but just sticking anything up there wont work u have to dilate, according to some people ,done it, at least 2 hours but in my opinion it takes much longer. however its importand to have it all very sterile (cause it has the same infectional potetial as a large open wound), so it is POSSIBLE but not that simple, and should be done with the acknowledgement of an doctor(at least if u r unexperienced).

there are so many women wich feel a large pain just tuching the cervix, and there are those who dont feel much while tuching the cervix and even entering it , at all

Sat, Apr. 7th, 2007 05:07 am (UTC)
nico1908

There is a reason why they do abortions under full anesthesia! Heck, just having my cervix scraped for an annual pap smear is uncomfortable. *winces*

Sat, Apr. 7th, 2007 11:44 pm (UTC)
crazydragon33

Now see, I'm a female, and the mere idea of anything like that happening to me makes me cringe with pain in the same way most men cringe at the idea of being hit in the parts. More so since my bro's gf described an in-office D&C where they had 'frozen' her to anesthetize the area and their assurances that she would not feel a thing...she felt every single movement, the scraping and prodding of the tools. All of it.

Some of the dialog in such stories make me cringe in the first place. There is a point where I just click the lil happy X that closes the window due to the dialog alone. Sometimes, it just plain devolves into something so trashy and deplorable that I have a very hard time seeing the "hot" in the piece. Some is fine, but there is a point its just stupid. I have issues with dialog in the fandom that I scuttle around, more so since the characters have what is best called "very Shakespearian dialog." Seeing that manner of language in it (porn or comedy) is rather sickening, especially since most do not know the context that the words meant over a hundred years ago. The best example I can give is one fic that was completely hot...until one line threw the moment. A modern phrase in it was just...ehh.

The rest of what you say there is true to a lot of people. Its not too hard to figure out anatomy. (Some, perhaps, are like one fellow who was in class with me ages ago...possessing male parts, but I could name them better than he could...rather sad really.) Writings where males suddenly gain parts many feet in length, or testicles the size of small melons just make me giggle and move on because I know that, in reality, that is like a woman having very large breasts - its more of a pain than any thing else. If they did a little reading around they would know that width means more, in regards to the amount of pleasure a female receives during sex than length, because width is more likely to hit the sensitive areas.

Sun, Apr. 8th, 2007 09:54 pm (UTC)
hellenebright: here from <lj user="metafandom">

Not only would it be incredibly painful (as someone said already, just scraping it for the c-smear is just one big ouch), but the recipient/victim would probably end up in hospital with gas gangrene. Introducing foreign bodies into the womb (and yes, in this case the penis is definitely a foreign body!!) is so not a good idea.

Interestingly, Laurel K Hamilton in one of her Anita Blake novels makes reference to the discomfort a generously endowed gent can cause his partner if he goes at it too hard and bumps up against the cervix.

Sun, Apr. 8th, 2007 10:45 pm (UTC)
crazydragon33: Re: here from <lj user="metafandom">

*nods* The vagina as a whole, has more than one landmark that is sensitive. The "G-spot" which most know about...or at least those who read a lot of Cosmo, is only one of them. There is actually a couple other areas. The area around the cervix is one of them.

Mnnn...I've been meaning to pick up that series (once I get a few books off of my reading to-list...its insanely long), just as soon as I find book one and start from that (I hate hopping into the middle of series). I've heard good and bad of the series, but the comics that one company has been putting out isn't too bad. Course, I've heard the same of some other series and enjoyed them anyways too, so wheeee~

Sun, Apr. 8th, 2007 10:57 pm (UTC)
hellenebright: Re: here from <lj user="metafandom">

The area around the cervix is one of them.

Yeah, and it's one you either enjoy being poked in or you don't...nuff said.

The Anita Blake novels split into two halves - before she has sex (I won't say who with, cos that would spoil the whole thing) and the ones after. MHO the ones before are much better because they are nearly all plot. The ones after gradually descent into porn, until the last one she published was 50% smut, 40% angst and general yakking about sex and relationships, and 10% dead-raising-vampire-slaying plot.

Sun, Apr. 8th, 2007 11:05 pm (UTC)
crazydragon33: Re: here from <lj user="metafandom">

(I don't keel people over spoilers...in fact when I was reading a select number of HP fics it only made me want to read the books faster due to references in them to the books XD;;;; But then I'm weird like that.) I'll keep that in mind when I finally get to it LOL, but I wouldn't doubt it. So long as it stays more interesting than Rice's work. (Its complicated, but I have 0 respect for her specifically, and not a whole lot for her writing.)

Sun, Apr. 8th, 2007 11:23 pm (UTC)
hellenebright: Re: here from <lj user="metafandom">

Hamilton is a lot less overwrought in her writing than Rice. And her characters have a genuine sort of reality that's rather funny - for example, the vampire likes nice bath products and blow dries his hair.

Sun, Apr. 8th, 2007 11:37 pm (UTC)
crazydragon33: Re: here from <lj user="metafandom">

w00t!

Now THAT is amusing XD!!!

I'm normally seen fluttering around a fandom, with vampires in it, and the occasional topic pops up over their sexuality. You can't deny they have it - too much ego not to, really - but people like to commit to giant acts of fandom wankage over whether or not they do. Those arguments can only be exceeded by the whole yaoi/slash debate. (Personally, I say hells yes because their 'logic' is fuzzier than a tribble considering the do not take into account a lot of information and the fact that even in the wild, sex has an actual use beyond reproduction, thus, it would be a throwback if they 'evolved' off their parts. But that's just me.) I likes my vampires =3 they're brutal, not friendly, not fluffy at all. X3

Now you've put a mental image of one of them keeping a secret stash of bubble bath XD!!

Mon, Apr. 9th, 2007 01:07 am (UTC)
hellenebright: Re: here from <lj user="metafandom">

Yeah, I've been bored by the arguments.... Far as I can see, vamps started out human, and humans have sex, and vamps have heightened senses and abilities in other spheres so why not the sex one as well.

Sorry about the bubble bath thing - he does also do the ripping your throat out thing when called upon so to do.

Mon, Apr. 9th, 2007 05:35 pm (UTC)
vinnie_tesla: Bump and Ouch

Cervix-bumping is a matter of angle, not length. Most women can touch their cervixes with their own fingers, which gives a pretty good idea of the distances involved.

I've experienced cervix-bumping during sex with my own ordinarily-proportioned equipment, and my sweetie reports that she's also had it happen with smaller-than-average lovers.

Mon, Apr. 9th, 2007 06:17 pm (UTC)
hellenebright: Re: Bump and Ouch

I guess it's just Laurel K that's size-obsessed then :)

Given that the birth canal turns a right angle through the cervix - which is why getting a human baby out is such a nice problem in engineering - wouldn't a guy setting out to penetrate the cervix have to have a right angle bend in his dick? Or have the head of the thing bent round through 90 degrees when it goes through? Wouldn't that hurt - my hubby seems terribly sensitive if I shift position while we're still playing about and accidentally bend him some way he doesn't want to go.

Mon, Apr. 9th, 2007 07:09 pm (UTC)
vinnie_tesla: Re: Bump and Ouch

Basically, yes, though it's conceivable that you might be able to find an angle where that wasn't the case. Could make an amusing short story, though...

"Oh, baby! Fuck my cervix!"

"Ow! Help! Let go of my dick!"

Wed, Apr. 2nd, 2008 04:16 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: Bump and Ouch

The uterus is ordinarily at more or less a right angle to the cervix; during arousal it tilts upward somewhat to a less extreme angle (but still not a straight shot).

My personal experience has been that gentle contact around my cervix often feels nice, but that being poked or thumped is extremely unpleasant. The analogy I usually use to describe this is "you enjoy being kissed, but not being kicked in the mouth, right?" Since I tend to prefer vigorous thrusting during intercourse and tend to instinctively pull a guy against me, guys who are too long tend to collide painfully with my cervix; thus I've developed an active dislike of oversized cocks and reading about them in stories makes me cringe.

As for cervical penetration...I've thankfully never experienced it (and share the response to pap smears) but I have no doubt that it would be an absolutely horrible experience if it were really to happen to me. Nevertheless, there is something about the (intentionally unrealistic) image and thought of being pushed open and feeling my partner entering me in such a deep and intimate way. I'm not entirely sure why; I suspect a part of it is with the implicit D/s overtones, and part of it is the presumably increased chances of conception (both of these have become pervasive elements of my fantasy life). The appeal is symbolic, perhaps; and it would hardly be the first situation I'd never want to really be in wrapping itself around my mind while my hand was in my panties. So, my advice to authors would be, don't pretend it's remotely realistic, but if you find it hot in an idealized fantasy like I do, don't shy away from including it. It, however, probably shouldn't be approached as casually as some authors do.

Fri, Jul. 11th, 2008 11:28 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: Bump and Ouch

When a woman has cramps that make her puke her guts out and not be able to move from the pain, that's because her cervix has opened less than the size of a dime. I couldn't imagine being able to survive/stay conscious, let alone ENJOY having my cervix penetrated.

Thu, Feb. 19th, 2009 02:02 am (UTC)
missus_madness

These people must not have ever fucked a woman deeply enough to actually hit her cervix themselves. I personally squeal in pain (because it hurts. Badly.), but I've gotten enough emails on CM from men saying they wanted to penetrate my cervix. I am now going to send them here.

Thu, Jul. 9th, 2009 05:14 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): Size Queens


Without question, cervical penetration is just plain ignorant. It would appear that many of those writing are too darn lazy to do a basic 5 minute fact search on the web.

On the other hand, penis size is, well, more than just male envy. As it turns out, there is an A zone that varies by female and by female experience level. There is also a B zone and C zone. You don't wanna be in the C zone guys.

Length versus width is the deal. Long and narrow and short and fat are the two extremes of the same thing; volume. www.penissizedebate.com has gotten a bit commercial of late. I first found the site many years ago before the owner decided to capitalize on the horde of people reading his well researched and documented information.

One of the things he posts is information on the anterior and posterior fornex stimulation points. I can verify they are real from personal experience. Go check it all out for yourself.

Oh well.

Thu, May. 13th, 2010 11:35 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: Size Queens

When I am with my lover, I can and do penetrate her cervix when fingering her. Penetration does not go past the first knuckle, but I can certainly feel the "frickly" feeling inside it. She feels no pain, and enjoys it immensely.

Tue, Aug. 17th, 2010 10:56 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: Size Queens

Sorry, but this is probably incorrect, unless your lover has a grossly incompetent cervical os due to some surgical procedure such as multiple D&C's or abortions.

I have a great deal of experience of female anatomy from work in operating theatres (Operating Rooms in U.S. terminology). Cervical dilatation is performed using progressively thicker dilators starting at about 2mm diameter up to about 30mm diameter (rarely used in fact) and requires (sorry ladies if this makes you wince) a good deal of very well controlled force once the thinner dilators have been used (<5mm). To assist the surgeon to apply this force safely the anterior cervical lip is held firmly in a toothed clamp which is drawn down the vagina to be laid horizontally outside the body, thus drawing the whole of the uterus down the vagina towards the introitus. To say that you penetrate your girlfriends cervix with your finger is pretty far from reality unless she has an extremely incompetent cervical os, which IMHO would render her at great risk of infection from your unwise activity.

Also, the cervix is part of the uterus and although there is a gentle curve from the os to the main uterine cavity, it is not likely to be a right angle, more likely 20-30 degrees. If you don't believe any of this do a Google search for Hegar's Dilators.

Tue, Aug. 17th, 2010 11:01 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: Size Queens - addendum

Sorry, I forgot to mention that unless the lady having her cervix dilated is deeply anaesthetised, she *will* feel extreme pain, of a sort far more profoundly fundamental than a mere hard kick in the balls, such that she would faint and probably suffer a dangerous bradycardia (slow heartbeat) into the bargain. Ask anyone who has had a contraceptive coil inserted and they will probably vouch for the fact that it is at the least a very, very uncomfortable experience.